nationfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Foreign relations of Lovia
I think our Monarch should take a look into this Foreign Relations-thingy, its not really my cup of tea (politics). BastardRoyale 09:21, June 24, 2010 (UTC) :Our monarch will do that very soon :) 15:06, June 24, 2010 (UTC) ::Perhaps we should add something about financial and/or material support we send to third world countries and conflict regions? 07:09, June 25, 2010 (UTC) :::Not to conflict areas, 'cause then we're giving up our neutrality. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 14:12, June 25, 2010 (UTC) ::::Not if you send material support (like food) and doctors to help the local population. I never said anything about 'picking sides'... 06:35, June 26, 2010 (UTC) :::::That's dangerous and you'll certainly pick sides if you help someone and another not. It will be virtually impossible to help both sides then. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 07:13, June 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::::If you only help citizens regardless of what side they're on it is possible. But I do get your point: it would piss of the organized military forces in a conflict between asymmetric powers. Nonetheless it remains the morally right choice. 10:24, June 26, 2010 (UTC) :::::::If you don't help the oppressed, then you're helping the oppressor. Semyon Edikovich 20:25, June 26, 2010 (UTC) :Well, that is an extreme vision. I'm sure there are many gradations but sending humanitarian support isn't really picking sides. You could combine such support with the disapproval of the entire conflict (instead of condemning the actions of just one side). 07:49, June 27, 2010 (UTC) Article The article probably is pretty bad, but thats because I am not as familiar with Lovian culture as some of our 'veteran users' are. Perhaps one of you oldies could expand the article - there must be other countries besides the United States with whom Lovia has a relation (good or bad), no? BastardRoyale 18:13, June 29, 2010 (UTC) :Sure, especially Libertas, Adlibita and Mäöres. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:50, June 29, 2010 (UTC) ::I want to write about humanitarian aid and I promise to keep out of the bigger conflict regions to be sure I don't hurt a general's feelings. Just some AIDS-campaigning, malaria-fighting and financial/material support for education in Middle Africa. Can you agree on that? 05:45, June 30, 2010 (UTC) :Also, let Lovia be against the occupation of Palestine and Tibet and let them criticize North-Korea. BastardRoyale 12:33, July 27, 2010 (UTC) ::And against the war in Afghanistan (as well as critical towards the bombings in the Yugoslavian Civil Wars, the Israeli-Lebanese conflict and the Gulf Wars). I think it is only fair to give both sides some credit. 16:22, July 27, 2010 (UTC) :Sounds fair. But what credit do you want to give to Israel and China? The USA sure has some good sides, but other certain countries are just... bad news. You need to be critical in order to change things, I guess. Maybe we could invite the Dalai Lama to hold a speech in Lovia? We have quite a few buddhists here. We might aswell just pick sides, on some issues. For example, you are a supporter of gay rights, which is cool, but what about the rights of native americans, the right to return for Palestinian refugees, the corruption of African governments, the Chinese one-child-policy, the death penalty. Those are all issues Lovia should be involved in. I got a whole washlist, also: human trafficking, slavery, child labour. BastardRoyale 16:42, July 27, 2010 (UTC) ::You need to tackle the problems at their source: all big conflicts in today's world can be explained by its political-economic structure. These 'issues of the powerful' are then disguised by religion and ethnicity. No country is 'bad', it are people who are selfish that sicken the system. 16:46, July 27, 2010 (UTC) :True words. It is always the government that messes things up, or a few sicko's to spoil the entire world's perception of a country or religion. If it weren't for the likes of Osama, nobody would have a problem with muslims and if it weren't for acts like the Gaza war of '08\'09, I bet there would be less anti-semitism. Also, when I think of China, I think of chopsticks, kungfu and Jackie Chan first, not about the opressing of Tibet. Perhaps Lovia could boycott certain products to prove a point, or get around the table with other nations leaders (fictionally)? Think big, think global! BastardRoyale 16:51, July 27, 2010 (UTC) ::All we need is an impeccable moral standard. It should be ethics guiding our foreign policy, not politics or economy. I'm against any kind of imposed boycot; the people are well capable of telling what is wrong as long as we provide objective information. If China is wrong, they know it; if the US is wrong, they should know it too. 16:55, July 27, 2010 (UTC) :I doubt all people are so smart. People are like sheep: easy to influence and even to brainwash. That is how for example the gun lobby and other lobbies in the US have more or less brainwashed people. A day after a school shooting, a pro gun rally is held. Coincidence? I doubt it. If you tell someone ever from the day they are born that something is wright or wrong, some country is wright or wrong or some religion or ethnic group, they will believe it, because it is all they hear and they don't know any better. Education is the keyword. BastardRoyale 16:59, July 27, 2010 (UTC) ::I couldn't agree more; this is why an embargo is bad, but media attention for a citizen-initiative based boycot in combination with objective information is good. It's all about educating the public (and I don't mean sending them to labor camps). 17:02, July 27, 2010 (UTC) :Right on target. Just give them the plain facts, and let them decide for themselves what to do with it. Do not try to mindfuck people into believing everything you say is always right: they should think about everything, question everything, those are the best citizens you can wish for. Only smart people ask questions, the dumb just don't care. BastardRoyale 17:07, July 27, 2010 (UTC) ::Or the misled (I prefer that over dumb or evil) believe they already have the answer or they pose the wrong questions. I don't say a government (or anyone) shouldn't put forth any values, but the values they do put forth must be acceptable to reason and reflect the true nature of our case. 17:12, July 27, 2010 (UTC) :The government can have certain campaigns meant for educational purposes. There have to be platforms such as newspapers (which, lately, have gone unactive) and television programmes in which politicians give their opinion about both foreign and local occurences. And wouldn't it be nice if Lovia gets "involved" more in the real world (like the writings of the communist website, or fundings when a major disaster strikes some poor nation)? BastardRoyale 17:18, July 27, 2010 (UTC) ::I'll talk to two of my friends in the television world, Jon and Harold. Maybe they can give me a weekly show where I discuss some actual matters with another important figure (foreign or Lovian) and answer the viewers their questions. 17:24, July 27, 2010 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. And could you write some more sections on Lovia's relationship with various other nations (not knowing our history as well as you do, I must admit I find it rather difficult and I fear I'll make mistakes). BastardRoyale 17:27, July 27, 2010 (UTC) ::You're doing pretty good this far. Just keep writing and I'll read/correct things in the morning; I'm going offline now. 17:28, July 27, 2010 (UTC) Pimping the article I'm pimping the article with links, images, etc. I'll also add a bit about earlier conflicts. A little note on the boycott of North Korean products: as far as I know North Korea exports only weaponry and propaganda. 08:03, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :Sounds good to me! And we don't need no weaponry.BastardRoyale 08:27, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm balancing it a bit since the historical references lack structure: anti-colonialism can be tied to the US-inheritance (just like isolationism) but this rises questions on the US policy itself etc. 08:41, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :Great. At the section "South-Afrika", give credit to the ANC? Why give credit to the guys who sing "kill the boer", they are no better then the AWB. BastardRoyale 09:08, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :And does Cuba really have such great human right standards? BastardRoyale 09:11, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::I said 'some Lovians' give credit to the ANC. Be fair, I know there is an extremist current present but they were the thriving force behind the fall of the Apartheid. They fought for it long before the west cared; receiving their only support from commies. The ANC might have troubles with corruption and poverty but those problems are created by exploitation by the west and an ethic of greed, not by governmental policy. About Cuba: free health care with higher standard than the US, free education with a standard equal to the US, people get trials before they are put in jail (ever heard of Guantanamo Bay? It's not Cuban!). Cuba has trade deals with Oxfam, so yes the standards are fairly good. Better than Russia I'd say and we trade with them don't we? 09:20, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :You convinced me! :-) BastardRoyale 09:40, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::Well, it is not official policy but it is notably not official policy ;-) 10:04, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::What exactly do you mean by 'side current'? Semyon E. Breyev 10:46, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::Well, next to the official policy you have a minority of people who feel very strongly about the subject. Take the US for example: officially we have a very strong relationship but there is a notable minority of people who are critical of or even hostile towards the US. The policy isn't dictated by the side currents but they do define the climate in which the relationship develops. 11:22, July 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::What does "side current" mean? Marcus Villanova :::::Try reading the section above? Semyon E. Breyev 19:57, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :::: Helping? Do you want help, I could do smaller countries or stuff like Canada, Mexico, China, Japan? So need help? Marcus Villanova 19:53, July 28, 2010 (UTC) :Currently we only have the ones we can connect to users; feel free to add more nations. 07:24, July 29, 2010 (UTC) ::i agree. don't just add little countries with which we have no official relations.. 17:29, July 29, 2010 (UTC) :::Do you mean we have relations with the real word --Lars Washington 07:51, July 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::Seemingly... Martha Van Ghent 08:23, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Lovia is now firmly embedded in the real world. Lovia has allies, friends, diplomacy with real life countries and has had a long history of contact with other nations, big or small. It has always been like this, and now it has been written, it is true. BastardRoyale 08:27, July 30, 2010 (UTC) Could someone please stop this relentless adding of countries and regions??? It's absurd... Martha Van Ghent 08:40, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :Mr. Medvedev and I have already discussed it earlier and mr. Villanova is currently working on the page (as you can see, it is still "under construction"). I doubt it any more nations and regions will be added soon, but who knows what more they have planned? BastardRoyale 08:45, July 30, 2010 (UTC) ::I do believe we should focus on the main relations instead of making an endless list. I mean, WTH does San Marino here? 09:02, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :I have no idea what San Marino does on the list, but it was Villanova who put it on the list. Maybe because Lovia is also a mini-state and therefore has good relations with other mini-states? BastardRoyale 11:47, July 30, 2010 (UTC) ::I think we should simplify this list greatly. And why no Libertas/Adlibita/Maores? Semyon E. Breyev 15:50, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Please stop adding silly nations that we have no connections with whatsoever. Like Simon says there are much more valuable additions to make. 15:54, July 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::Damnit, I was hoping no-one would find out my real name. Semyon E. Breyev 15:56, July 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::Lets clarify I added superpowers like Italy and Germany and China BastardRoyal (Do i really have to call him that?!) Added like gaza and shit. Marcus Villanova 15:58, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::In my opinion, Gaza and the Baltic states are unnecessary. For one thing, there's nothing to say about them (the sprat/dassie exchangge is nice, but isn't really foreign relations). And some people (see Lars and Martha above) don't want any foreign relations at all. Semyon E. Breyev 16:01, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :::::i see I think with alll this arguements parties will disolve... that kinda was an answer but not really. LD and WLP are closer than ever. CCLP is somewhere. NLS is doing really goood. My LLCP will probaly have to merge with another party. And CLp.nm is sorta doing good but is always dealing with somthing! Marcus Villanova 16:16, July 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yes you really need to call me that because I am the King's bastard son. And I added some small nations but you did the same: San Marino and the Baltic states are also small. I also added China, since when is China small? ;-) BastardRoyale 16:17, July 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::No i'm fine with it. It's other peeps who are really agrevated with it. Marcus Villanova 16:21, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Thanks. They should just cool down and take it easy. It has been discussed earlier, they weren't around so to bad but not my problem. They cannot undo the hard work of other such as you, me and Yuri. BastardRoyale 16:23, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :::True. Marcus Villanova 16:26, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :Besides: I was the one who started the page in the first place. If it weren't for me, the page would not have been here at all. Even though we clearly do have bonds with the real world. BastardRoyale 16:28, July 30, 2010 (UTC) Historical error? The article states that Germany, a member of the Axis, cut all ties with Lovia after the latter refused to join the Allies. This sounds rather silly; perhaps you meant that Lovia refused to join the Axis? (Though I can't see why they would want us to get involved; we are more valuable as a trading partner than as a military ally!) 16:43, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :Ooopss sorry i'll change it! Marcus Villanova 16:47, July 30, 2010 (UTC) ::Why not say Lovia cut the ties to 'remain neutral' (the US only joined the war much later so there is no need in cutting ties with them). I doubt the fascist nations would ask us to join, especially when Europe/Northern Africa was the stage in the first years. 16:52, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :::What did that little troll call me? At least I don't take filthy money thinking that it is 'because I'm worth it'. It will be good riddance when the Socialist Party wins the next elections in France. 16:55, July 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Well i thought France hates everyone so lets make it practial. Marcus Villanova 17:01, July 30, 2010 (UTC) ::: Southern Sudan Alright, anyone seen this on the telly? I'm wanting to see how this would fold out durning our elections- whos going to do what, I also think the statement about France is really overblown up, no political leader would shoot himself up like that.-Nathaniel Scribner 03:16, January 10, 2011 (UTC) :Every decent state would recognize Southern Soedan since it got its independence through a peaceful and democratic process. I'm very happy they are happy and they have a nice flag too. Nonetheless I always regret the split up of countries and I seriously doubt wether the people of Southern Soedan will actually fare well. 13:25, January 10, 2011 (UTC) ::Do you know exactly why they want independence? I gather it is due to cultural and religious tensions (Sub-Saharan v. Arabic, Muslim v. Christian) but Wikipedia is quite vague. @Nathaniel: I agree, much of this page needs to be rewritten. Semyon 18:17, January 10, 2011 (UTC) *ARRGGHHH* (not like a pirate ) but this page causes so much tension and stupidity. Watch out page, I'm coming for ya'! In all seriousness I agree with yuri southern sudan will fail, epically! Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 21:43, January 10, 2011 (UTC) :Would it be alright if I took the French part off, please?-Nathaniel Scribner 22:03, January 10, 2011 (UTC) ::What worries me about Southern Sudan is that by doing so, religious division will grow; the North is highly Muslim, to South Christian. With Northern Sudan as a new Arab state, the Arab Union will probably back it up, which would be difficult for Southern Sudan, and could complicate recognition. Not to mention that the lack of oil fields in the North will cause a major economic problem, followed by conflicts as landlocked Southern oil will need to be moved through Northern Sudan unless Ethiopia is willing to help out, which I doubt, taken that that will result in further international taxation through Eritrea. Edward Hannis 00:13, January 11, 2011 (UTC) :::And to say that it is all for 'the stability of the region'. It is proven once again that people are just to stupid to overcome the difference they themselves create. Not that the poor people of Soedan are to be blamed for this shame, they just believe that things will become better. It doesn't matter in how many parts you divide a piece of land, positive stability can only result from a reasonable attitude of the people who live in it. 10:19, January 11, 2011 (UTC) ::: :::Actually, Edward, Kenya shares a small border with S. Sudan, so I don't think Ethiopia is going to be much of a problem in terms of oil shipments (plus it takes less time to go from most of the S. Sudanese oilfields to the Kenyan coast that to the Sudanese coast). What really worries me is the backing that China has been giving Sudan over the past few years. China is in desperate need of oil, and Sudan (had) tons of it. Now that S. Sudan is going to be independent (and probably Western-alligned), I'm worried about what China is going to do to procure oil next time. I doubt they'd try and get it from S. Sudan with all the media attention currently focused on it, but they're gonna have to get that oil from somewhere. BoredMatt 11:01, January 11, 2011 (UTC) ::::I think the fear for China is blown up by the media. China has one of the most pragmatic foreign policies in the world. It doesn't care if your government is radical, muslim, capitalist, western-aligned or otherwise (quote anyone?). I'm not saying I back the Chinese foreign policy or its principles here, but I just can't imagine them invading a country for oil. Some economic pressure maybe, but we never were afraid of using that too, were we? 11:20, January 11, 2011 (UTC) Baltic States Somewhere in the 1960s "all four nations were arguing". However, this was impossible, as the Baltic States were part of the Soviet Union until the 1990s. Besides, I find it hard to realize that a small country like Lovia would even dare to argue with the Soviet Russians or any type of delegation of the Baltic people during that time. Khrushchev wasn't really friendly either. Cristian Latin 13:45, January 11, 2011 (UTC) :That and the fact that most East-West talks were bilateral. It would be most realistic to say that Lovia just had a good economic thing going on with the States and some countries of Western Europe. All other scenario's seem most unlikely. 13:51, January 11, 2011 (UTC) I have the feeling like we should re-do this entire page. Marcus Villanova Music is Life.Lean Forward.Walden 22:30, January 11, 2011 (UTC) Wikinations Quite missing those here. We've had a turbulent past with especially Libertas, Mäöres, and Adlibita (UWN). And recently, Brunant's been playing an important role (royal weddings and stuff, IWO). --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:45, December 29, 2012 (UTC) Brunant should be added certainly. Happy65 Talk CNP ''' ' 11:56, December 29, 2012 (UTC) :Yes, I agree. A whole section on the IWO would be great, but I don't think I can write about Libertas or Adlibita considering they were already practically dead when I arrived. You and Horton are the obvious candidates to write about Mäöres and Brunant. :P --Semyon 12:01, December 29, 2012 (UTC) ::Hahaha :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:04, December 29, 2012 (UTC) :::Yes, it's something we should include. HORTON11: • 14:49, December 29, 2012 (UTC) :::Certainly. ' Happy65 ' ' Talk CNP ''' 15:24, December 29, 2012 (UTC) Some work to be done on this page - for the next Minister of Foreign Affairs, perhaps? --Semyon 11:46, March 29, 2015 (UTC)